Hi there, Lisa here. Before we start the show, I have a few disclaimers that I would like for you to keep in mind, as you listen to each Episode. First, this show will cover a variety of topics related to connection, mental health, work, & life; & some of these topics may be sensitive for you or someone you know. I want to offer you permission to choose courage over comfort when it comes to consuming sensitive content; & also, permission to respect your own limits when it comes to consuming this content which may be sensitive for you. I also need to indicate that while I am a licensed therapist, I am not your therapist. This show is not intended to be direct professional advice & you should not use this as a substitute for individualized, professional help. Lastly, while I can assure you that any of the coachable or teachable content I share will have demonstrated effectiveness – & are practices I use myself – I can also assure you that I am imperfect & there are times when I do not act as skillfully, as I would have liked. My goal is to act skillfully, most of the time; & I very much want that for you, too! Now, with that said, let’s start the show.

Hello & welcome to Wired to Connect, the startup mental health podcast that keeps you going every week, with our easily digestible lessons, skills, & stories, that you can put into practice immediately. I’m your host, your coach, your teacher, Lisa Birnbaum; I’m also a social worker, a therapist, & the Co-Founder of Strengths Squared: a therapy, coaching, & consulting practice, for startup founders & their teams, that I started with my wife & Co-Founder in 2021. The learnings we are sharing here, come from a combination of the lived experiences of the startup founders & startup team members we’ve worked with over the years, from our own lived experiences, & from research-backed strategies, too. And we are so excited to be able to share these insights here, with all of you now. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing

How to Address “Quiet Quitting” at a Startup. Today’s topic comes from one of our listeners. The question reads:

“Hi Lisa & Marisa, I’m a first-time SAAS Founder, with a remote-first, distributed team. Throughout the past month, my Team & I have heard all the buzz on social media about corporate ‘Quiet Quitting’, &, admittedly, I’ve joked about it on our internal Slack channels. A few of my Product Leads seem pretty checked-out recently, though; & now I’m worried they may actually be ‘Quiet Quitting’ on me. How should I navigate this? I’d really like to handle this effectively & I’m not sure how best to address it, or, if I even should address it at all. I’d love to hear your perspective on this. Really enjoying the podcast so far, & thanks very much in advance! ~ Steve”

Ahhh, “Quiet Quitting”, the buzzword of the month. Really glad you wrote in with this question, Steve. Prior to recording, Marisa & I talked over your situation & we’re in agreement on how to navigate this. I’m going to break all of it down for you in today’s episode – including whether or not to address this at all – & I’ll take you through some best practices for handling this effectively. Even if you are not in Steve’s exact situation, I think a number of you will be able to relate to Steve’s concerns as the Founder, & I also think a number of you will be able to relate to what Steve’s Product Leads might be experiencing as the non-Founders.

So let’s get into it, let’s make some meaningful connections.

So much of this is interconnected. I’m going to break all of this down for you in today’s episode. So, let’s get into it; let’s make some meaningful connections!

Support for today’s show comes from our very own, Strengths Squared. What if you really knew the type of startup founder you are, or the type of future-startup founder you are likely to become? Would it change your trajectory? Would you do anything differently? Well now you can better answer these questions for yourself, by taking the quiz we created, specifically for startup founders and future-startup founders. In 10, pinpoint questions, you’ll identify your leadership strengths, as well as your opportunities for growth. At the end, you’ll see which type of startup founder you are – or which type of future-startup founder you are likely to become – so that you can move forward with the clarity, courage, and confidence to ensure that your type is working for you, rather than against you. Just head to: strengthssquared.com/quiz to take the first step toward being the best startup founder you can be. That’s s-t-r-e-n-g-t-h-s-s-q-u-a-r-e-d-dot-com-forward-slash-quiz, and we can’t wait to hear which type of startup founder you are!

Today’s topic comes from listener Steve, who’s a first-time SAAS Founder. Steve noted that a few of his Product Leads seem pretty checked-out & he’s worried they are “Quiet Quitting” on him. He asked if he should address this; & if so, how best to address it.

The short answer is, “yes, you should definitely address this; you should address this soon; & you should address this clearly, kindly, with genuine curiosity, empathically, & compassionately.”

Bottom line is that it doesn’t really matter if your people are “Quiet Quitting” or not. I mean it does matter, but it doesn’t matter at this moment, whether they are intending to come across this way or not, in order for you to address it with them. What matters here is that you are concerned, and so, you should definitely address this, as soon as possible, with your people.

In order to effectively address this with your people though, first, we need to take a step back & break-down what’s going on here. And, in order to do that, we need to have a common understanding of what “Quiet Quitting” is. Over the past month, Marisa & I have seen tons of stuff about this online – on social media; in like, actual news articles; & on late-night TV – some of which we agree with, some of which we disagree with, some of which we found absolutely hilarious,

you know how everyone's been talking about the great resignation where people are just like leaving their jobs after the pandemic, well if you hate your job in fear confrontation there's a new thing called quiet quitting. That's when people emotionally and mentally check out a work and do as little as possible without getting fired. We already have a term for that it's called your 30s. And me I'm not a quiet quitter I do something I like to do called loud leaving. That's when you say I’m leaving in the most dramatic way possible and someone chases after you. They're like no Nicole don't go you're the best guest host we've ever had at jimmy Kimmel. You're the most beautiful the most talented. I'm so sorry I **** up your coffee order this morning but congratulations on your multiple well-deserved emmy nominations.

& some of which has completely distorted what was meant by “Quiet Quitting” in the first place. Our understanding of all of this is that the term, “Quiet Quitting” was used back in March of 2022; that sometime between March & July, the person whose TikTok went viral, learned about the term; & then he started posting about it in late July of 2022. So, I think it’s important to state exactly what it is, he posted. In that initial TikTok of his that went viral, he said:

“I recently learned about this term called Quiet Quitting, where you’re not outright quitting your job, but you’re quitting the idea of going above & beyond. You’re still performing your duties but you’re no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work has to be your life. The reality is, it’s not. And your worth as a person is not defined by your labor.” ~ @zaidleppelin

So – if I’m understanding your question about “Quiet Quitting” to mean, a concern that a few of your Product Leads are not outright quitting, but that they are quitting the idea of going above & beyond; that they’re still performing their duties, but that they’re no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work has to be their life – I’d like you to ask yourself, what it is about this change that’s having you feel worried? I’ve heard some Founders refer to their startup as their “baby” & – as someone who has an actual baby – I’m sure you already know that very few people – if any – are going to care as much about your company as you do! At the same time, I’m sure you want to be surrounded by people who care ‘almost’ as much as you do, & maybe you even thought you had found them! Let’s not forget though, these Product Leads are still getting their work done; & yet, you’re expecting them to do more than that. But, why? Have you suddenly started paying them more or has this just come to be your expectation & now that something has changed, you’re worried something must be wrong? Throughout the past month, larger companies have really honed in on all the talk about “Quiet Quitting” & have somehow managed to turn this into a corporate media campaign; to scare employees into continuing to conform to the – super unhealthy – hustle culture mentality, or else be “Quiet Fired”. And let’s be honest, large companies do not deal with change well & are typically slow to adopt. But you, my Friend, are a Startup Founder! You are very likely someone who is ahead of the curve & are probably not someone who went into this to maintain the status quo & keep things exactly as they are. Why not try applying that same mentality to this instead of buying into this corporate media campaign? If your Product Leads are in fact, “Quiet Quitting” & are no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work has to be their life, can you start to consider the fact that this may actually be a good thing?! This means they are whole people, with lives outside of work, & that work is not all of them. Perhaps they are realizing – maybe even for the first time! – that their worth as people does not need to be defined by their productive output. I’m going to say that one again because it is just that important: Your people’s worth does not need to be defined by their productive output. They are worthy by being human. Period. And the same goes for you. Your worth as a person does not need to be defined by your productive output. You are worthy by being human. Period. And this doesn’t mean that your startup won’t be a unicorn or won’t be successful. Many of the startup therapy clients I work with have either already burned themselves out, or are on the brink of burnout. And, maybe if they hadn’t subscribed to the hustle culture mentality, they would have sustained themselves a lot longer. That’s the whole reason we’re doing this podcast! I want to share this stuff with you; to help you from making these same mistakes. So please, continue listening & learn all that you can here! Go ahead & put me out of a job!

Okay, now that we’ve talked through what I imagined your initial concerns were about your Product Leads “Quiet Quitting” & now that you are hopefully, able to see this from a different perspective, I want you to go ahead & schedule a meeting with your Product Leads – it can be one meeting with all of you together; preferably, some time this week – in order to address your concerns with them. It’s really important though, that you go into this conversation with a shift in your mindset, so that you understand that – regardless of whether we call it “Quiet Quitting” or something else – no longer subscribing to the hustle culture mentality that work needs to be your life, is not a bad thing!

As I hope you’ve come to appreciate, so much of this is interconnected. I’ll be back to recap all of these connections, right after this …

Support for today’s show comes from our very own Strengths Squared, a therapy, coaching, and consulting practice, partnering with startup founders & startup teams. At Strengths Squared, our goal is not to have to treat burnout after the fact; and instead, to prevent burnout from happening in the first place. We do this by equipping startup founders and their teams with the necessary skills to build sustainable, mentally healthy work cultures of collective care, collective accountability, & intentional work-life integration. If you are a startup founder, a startup team member, or are someone who might be a future-startup founder, and are navigating a challenging topic that you would like addressed on our show, or you have a question you would like answered on our show, please send an email to: podcast@strengthssquared.com for a chance to have your topic addressed or to have your question answered, on a future episode. Again, that’s p-o-d-c-a-s-t-@-s-t-r-e-n-g-t-h-s-s-q-u-a-r-e-d-dot-com, and we’ll keep our eyes out for your topics & your questions.

Let’s go ahead & pull all these connections together. To recap, today’s question came from listener Steve, a first-time SAAS Founder, wanting to know if he should address the topic of “Quiet Quitting” with a few of his Product Leads; & if so, how best to address this.

First, we took a step back to break-down what was going on & what our understanding of “Quiet Quitting” was, so that we’d have some shared language to use. Next, we talked through some initial concerns about “Quiet Quitting” & offered a different perspective on it. Then, we suggested scheduling a meeting with his Product Leads – preferably, some time this week – to address his concerns with them, & to go into the conversation with a shift in mindset. And lastly, this shift in mindset, should now allow Steve to describe any impact of his Product Leads’ change in behavior to them & inquire in a way that is clear, kind, genuinely curious, empathic, compassionate, & open to exploring multiple solutions together.

Thank you so much for listening to Wired to Connect & I hope this was helpful. And, thank you to Steve, for asking today’s question. If you’ve got a question, you would like answered on our show, just send an email to podcast@strengthssquared.com – that’s p-o-d-c-a-s-t@s-t-r-e-n-g-t-h-s-s-q-u-a-r-e-d.com – or use the link in the Show Notes. Also, if you would like a chance to win our Free Startup Coaching Session, which retails for $500, keep your ears out in the very next section for-the-instructions.

That wraps up today’s episode. I hope you loved it! Don’t forget to hit “Subscribe” or “Follow” on your favorite podcast app, so you don’t miss an episode. And, we are currently giving away our Free Startup Coaching Session! If you want to win a free coaching session, just leave us a rating & write a review on Apple Podcasts or the podcast app of your choice; and you’ll be entered in our weekly, random, draw. This type of startup coaching session retails for $500, & can be yours for free; by rating and writing a review of our podcast. Then, listen in next week to see if you won. It’s that simple! Thanks so much in advance, for supporting us on Apple Podcasts or on the podcast app of your choice!

Before I go, I want to leave you with this: If you are a non-Founder at a startup, & were able to relate to any of what Steve’s Product Leads were experiencing; or if you find yourself daydreaming about “Quiet Quitting”, you certainly don’t need to wait until your Founder brings this up with you. I am absolutely in favor of you, proactively, initiating this discussion. Essentially, what I am asking you to do, is to assertively set – & uphold – some boundaries for yourself. I fully recognize the inherent power differential here – between you, the non-Founder; & your boss, the Founder – & that can make setting boundaries feel hard & even a bit scary. I assure you though, if you communicate your boundaries clearly – & you hold to them consistently – this will not only foster your boss’s ability to trust you; this will also enable them to actually, respect your boundaries. Similarly, there is no trust without boundaries!

This could sound something like, “Steve, I know in the past I’ve seemed able to give all of myself to this work & to the larger Team. I do care about what we’re building . . . & . . . I have other things in my life that I care about, too. I need to not work around-the-clock anymore, & I need to feel able to live out other parts of my life, as well. I hope you can understand where I’m coming from & that we can continue to align on expectations going forward. Do you have any questions for me?”

As I hope you heard through this example, it is possible to embrace setting boundaries as a way of prioritizing both, respecting yourself & taking care of yourself; while also not needing to take responsibility for others’ perceived or actual responses.

Okay, that’s it for me today, on “Quiet Quitting” & on setting boundaries. Be sure to tune-in to our next Episode, Episode 10, & I’ll look forward to talking with you next time!

Thank you to my incredibly talented cousin, Andrew Fisher, for writing & playing the original music for this show. And, from the bottom of my heart, thank you to my amazing wife, partner, & Co-Founder, Marisa, for your belief in me, & in this show; for everything you do for our family & for Strengths Squared, for everything you are doing behind the scenes for Wired to Connect, & without whom, none of this would be possible! Lastly, & perhaps most importantly, thank you so much, to all of you who are listening, for supporting us by choosing to spend your time with us, for connecting with us, & for keeping an open mind & an open heart. I’ll look forward to connecting with you in next week’s episode. And until then, take good care, & remember, we are all Wired to Connect!